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	<title>Comments for Regional Top-Up</title>
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	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 06 Aug 2010 08:27:36 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on How Does It Work? by Anthony Butcher</title>
		<link>http://www.regionaltopup.co.uk/how-does-it-work/comment-page-1/#comment-437</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony Butcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Aug 2010 08:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.regionaltopup.co.uk/?page_id=5#comment-437</guid>
		<description>That could work, if the first preference votes were passed upwards for the top-up.

I think that the difference is marginal though. Bearing in mind that people can already vote for their preferred candidate/party, is there much advantage in offering them second and third preferences? Would that outweigh the additional complexity of changing the voting method? Certainly worth considering now that we might already have AV/IRV for the next general election anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That could work, if the first preference votes were passed upwards for the top-up.</p>
<p>I think that the difference is marginal though. Bearing in mind that people can already vote for their preferred candidate/party, is there much advantage in offering them second and third preferences? Would that outweigh the additional complexity of changing the voting method? Certainly worth considering now that we might already have AV/IRV for the next general election anyway.</p>
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		<title>Comment on How Does It Work? by Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.regionaltopup.co.uk/how-does-it-work/comment-page-1/#comment-436</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Aug 2010 00:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.regionaltopup.co.uk/?page_id=5#comment-436</guid>
		<description>Good, but it should be IRV not FPTP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good, but it should be IRV not FPTP.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Won&#8217;t you just get hung Parliaments under PR? by Anthony Butcher</title>
		<link>http://www.regionaltopup.co.uk/2009/09/21/wont-you-just-get-hung-parliaments-under-pr/comment-page-1/#comment-431</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony Butcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 15:02:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.regionaltopup.co.uk/?p=154#comment-431</guid>
		<description>Your proposed system is definitely worthy of a place on the Electoral reform Society list of alternative systems - you should drop them an email to see if they will add it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your proposed system is definitely worthy of a place on the Electoral reform Society list of alternative systems &#8211; you should drop them an email to see if they will add it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Won&#8217;t you just get hung Parliaments under PR? by David Gould</title>
		<link>http://www.regionaltopup.co.uk/2009/09/21/wont-you-just-get-hung-parliaments-under-pr/comment-page-1/#comment-430</link>
		<dc:creator>David Gould</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 14:38:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.regionaltopup.co.uk/?p=154#comment-430</guid>
		<description>Good point about the overspending being less likely with coalitions.  A Lab/Lib coalition prior to Clegg might have.

There are a few other circumstances where decisive govts are needed - terrorist attacks, attacks on eg Falklands, Northern Rock.

There&#039;s no inherent reason why STV parties couldn&#039;t come to some pre-Govt arrangement on things like this.  I look at the arrogance of the Labour Party and recent Tory Parties and remember everyone making jokes about Italy&#039;s government which collapsed every few months.  But these parties were a product of the system as you indicate.

So I think if we were to move to STV, doing it gradually might be a good plan.

I should be there at the meeting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point about the overspending being less likely with coalitions.  A Lab/Lib coalition prior to Clegg might have.</p>
<p>There are a few other circumstances where decisive govts are needed &#8211; terrorist attacks, attacks on eg Falklands, Northern Rock.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s no inherent reason why STV parties couldn&#8217;t come to some pre-Govt arrangement on things like this.  I look at the arrogance of the Labour Party and recent Tory Parties and remember everyone making jokes about Italy&#8217;s government which collapsed every few months.  But these parties were a product of the system as you indicate.</p>
<p>So I think if we were to move to STV, doing it gradually might be a good plan.</p>
<p>I should be there at the meeting.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Won&#8217;t you just get hung Parliaments under PR? by Anthony Butcher</title>
		<link>http://www.regionaltopup.co.uk/2009/09/21/wont-you-just-get-hung-parliaments-under-pr/comment-page-1/#comment-428</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony Butcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 08:00:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.regionaltopup.co.uk/?p=154#comment-428</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s not forget that we are in the position we are in because the Labour Government (with a strong majority) massively overspent because no one could stop them. Had that been a coalition, I think that there would have been much greater scrutiny. It&#039;s much harder for a party to hide the facts from a coalition partner who also has to take the responsibility and decisions. It could easily be argued that coalitions offer much greater fiscal responsibility than pure majority governments. 

I will definitely try to attend that meeting in Bristol. I went to the first two Bristol events.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s not forget that we are in the position we are in because the Labour Government (with a strong majority) massively overspent because no one could stop them. Had that been a coalition, I think that there would have been much greater scrutiny. It&#8217;s much harder for a party to hide the facts from a coalition partner who also has to take the responsibility and decisions. It could easily be argued that coalitions offer much greater fiscal responsibility than pure majority governments. </p>
<p>I will definitely try to attend that meeting in Bristol. I went to the first two Bristol events.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Won&#8217;t you just get hung Parliaments under PR? by David Gould</title>
		<link>http://www.regionaltopup.co.uk/2009/09/21/wont-you-just-get-hung-parliaments-under-pr/comment-page-1/#comment-427</link>
		<dc:creator>David Gould</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 01:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.regionaltopup.co.uk/?p=154#comment-427</guid>
		<description>Yes a lot of people say they&#039;re uncomfortable with it.  However, it&#039;s more accepted that MPs should follow their conscience and make better decisions than we would otherwise make. So I&#039;m quite happy to leave the BNP out. ;)

Britain has the highest debt ratio of any European country excluding Greece but an even higher deficit than Greece.  It is anomalous that we have a AAA credit rating and the rating agencies keep telling us that rating is contingent upon having a credible plan to cut the deficit over the medium term.

Without a government, there&#039;s no credible plan.  If we lose our credit rating, the cost of borrowing will triple or more - and it&#039;s already going to cost us £67 billion in 2014.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7150196.ece

I found you on this site:
http://www.democracyforum.co.uk/electoral-reform/76247-demo-outside-lib-dem-meeting-demands-electoral-reform.html

If you still live in Long Ashton, you&#039;re only a couple of miles from me.  A local TBP campaign has just started.  Meeting on Monday:
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=130562390305165</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes a lot of people say they&#8217;re uncomfortable with it.  However, it&#8217;s more accepted that MPs should follow their conscience and make better decisions than we would otherwise make. So I&#8217;m quite happy to leave the BNP out. <img src='http://www.regionaltopup.co.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Britain has the highest debt ratio of any European country excluding Greece but an even higher deficit than Greece.  It is anomalous that we have a AAA credit rating and the rating agencies keep telling us that rating is contingent upon having a credible plan to cut the deficit over the medium term.</p>
<p>Without a government, there&#8217;s no credible plan.  If we lose our credit rating, the cost of borrowing will triple or more &#8211; and it&#8217;s already going to cost us £67 billion in 2014.<br />
<a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7150196.ece" rel="nofollow">http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7150196.ece</a></p>
<p>I found you on this site:<br />
<a href="http://www.democracyforum.co.uk/electoral-reform/76247-demo-outside-lib-dem-meeting-demands-electoral-reform.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.democracyforum.co.uk/electoral-reform/76247-demo-outside-lib-dem-meeting-demands-electoral-reform.html</a></p>
<p>If you still live in Long Ashton, you&#8217;re only a couple of miles from me.  A local TBP campaign has just started.  Meeting on Monday:<br />
<a href="http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=130562390305165" rel="nofollow">http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=130562390305165</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Won&#8217;t you just get hung Parliaments under PR? by Anthony Butcher</title>
		<link>http://www.regionaltopup.co.uk/2009/09/21/wont-you-just-get-hung-parliaments-under-pr/comment-page-1/#comment-425</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony Butcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 08:41:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.regionaltopup.co.uk/?p=154#comment-425</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comments. 

I am not sure why you believe that the state would be bankrupt if the coalition Government fell apart. I see no particular evidence to support the fact that coalition Governments lead to state bankruptcy, certainly in the countries such as Germany who have had a PR system for a while.

That&#039;s an interesting system that you are proposing. I think that there is a distinct difference in terms of the starting premise. Your emphasis on moulding a perfect Government out of a General Election result is certainly original and has definite merits.

However, for me personally, democratic representation wins over electoral engineering in terms of importance. I think that it is more important for Parliament to represent the views of the people as accurately as possible. 

I am very uncomfortable with your suggestion that the system might be rigged against the BNP. Either we believe in democratic representation or we don&#039;t, regardless of what we think of their policies. It is a sign of weakness in an electoral system when particular outcomes in favour or against a particular party are mooted I think. The sky didn&#039;t fall in when the BNP gained 2 MEPs :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comments. </p>
<p>I am not sure why you believe that the state would be bankrupt if the coalition Government fell apart. I see no particular evidence to support the fact that coalition Governments lead to state bankruptcy, certainly in the countries such as Germany who have had a PR system for a while.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s an interesting system that you are proposing. I think that there is a distinct difference in terms of the starting premise. Your emphasis on moulding a perfect Government out of a General Election result is certainly original and has definite merits.</p>
<p>However, for me personally, democratic representation wins over electoral engineering in terms of importance. I think that it is more important for Parliament to represent the views of the people as accurately as possible. </p>
<p>I am very uncomfortable with your suggestion that the system might be rigged against the BNP. Either we believe in democratic representation or we don&#8217;t, regardless of what we think of their policies. It is a sign of weakness in an electoral system when particular outcomes in favour or against a particular party are mooted I think. The sky didn&#8217;t fall in when the BNP gained 2 MEPs <img src='http://www.regionaltopup.co.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Won&#8217;t you just get hung Parliaments under PR? by David Gould</title>
		<link>http://www.regionaltopup.co.uk/2009/09/21/wont-you-just-get-hung-parliaments-under-pr/comment-page-1/#comment-423</link>
		<dc:creator>David Gould</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 00:50:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.regionaltopup.co.uk/?p=154#comment-423</guid>
		<description>If the coalition collapsed, the state would be bankrupt within weeks.  I&#039;d say that was a pretty good argument against PR.

Nice site though.  Here&#039;s my effort at a new electoral system:

http://waronfreedom.wordpress.com/2010/05/11/fptp-av-and-stv-arent-the-only-electoral-systems/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the coalition collapsed, the state would be bankrupt within weeks.  I&#8217;d say that was a pretty good argument against PR.</p>
<p>Nice site though.  Here&#8217;s my effort at a new electoral system:</p>
<p><a href="http://waronfreedom.wordpress.com/2010/05/11/fptp-av-and-stv-arent-the-only-electoral-systems/" rel="nofollow">http://waronfreedom.wordpress.com/2010/05/11/fptp-av-and-stv-arent-the-only-electoral-systems/</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on North West 2010 under RTU by Anthony Butcher</title>
		<link>http://www.regionaltopup.co.uk/2010/05/23/north-west-2010-under-rtu/comment-page-1/#comment-391</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony Butcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 May 2010 23:20:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.regionaltopup.co.uk/?p=302#comment-391</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t forget that half the number of people voted in 2009 compared to 2010, so if the same proportions were maintained, UKIP potentially could have 5 million votes. Obviously UKIP is very much on its pet subject in the EU elections, so it isn&#039;t an entirely fair comparison :)

I am working on the remaining regions, but each one takes a bit of time to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t forget that half the number of people voted in 2009 compared to 2010, so if the same proportions were maintained, UKIP potentially could have 5 million votes. Obviously UKIP is very much on its pet subject in the EU elections, so it isn&#8217;t an entirely fair comparison <img src='http://www.regionaltopup.co.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I am working on the remaining regions, but each one takes a bit of time to do.</p>
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		<title>Comment on North West 2010 under RTU by Scott Wright</title>
		<link>http://www.regionaltopup.co.uk/2010/05/23/north-west-2010-under-rtu/comment-page-1/#comment-390</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Wright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 May 2010 20:42:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.regionaltopup.co.uk/?p=302#comment-390</guid>
		<description>Certainly behaviour would change with a new system in place. We only have to look at UKIP, a favourite example for those showing how unfair the system is. 2.5 million vote in 2009 EU elections under PR, under 1 million in 2010 under FPTP. I would be interested in seeing further results as so far I can only see 504 seats out of 650 in the 2010 results examples.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Certainly behaviour would change with a new system in place. We only have to look at UKIP, a favourite example for those showing how unfair the system is. 2.5 million vote in 2009 EU elections under PR, under 1 million in 2010 under FPTP. I would be interested in seeing further results as so far I can only see 504 seats out of 650 in the 2010 results examples.</p>
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